CHASING GREATNESS

Kayvon Thibodeaux, Brian Burns are doing that together … and maybe, along with Dexter Lawrence, bringing back the kind of defense the championship Giants teams have been known for

Kayvon Thibodeaux makes no secret of the fact that he is chasing greatness.

The New York Giants third-year edge defender sauntered into a press conference on Thursday and, before even reaching the podium, announced that, yes, he was chasing Michael Strahan’s single-season sack record so no one had to ask him if that was his goal.

“We’re in a life that we only really get once. You talk about living it to the fullest. When you have people who have lived it and who have walked it, it would be kind of a disservice to myself to not strive to be better than the standards they set,” Thibodeaux said. “I have an opportunity that people would wish they could be in. It’s only right if I give the people what they want. I honor myself by putting everything on the line, trying to be the best.”

Now, with two-time Pro Bowler Brian Burns on the opposite edge after being acquired via trade from the Carolina Panthers, Thibodeaux has a running mate. They can chase quarterbacks, and greatness, together.

“Me and Burns go way back from me being in high school, him being in college, seeing him play. He hosted me on my college visit,” Thibodeaux said. “I’ve always kind of compared myself to him as I continue my pass-rushing professional career. Being able to be with him, was kind of like that full-circle moment. Yeah, the competitive spirit. We’re chasing greatness every day. He knows a lot of things. He been in the league a lot longer than I have. He got a lot of game, a lot of gems that’s going to help my game.”

Since Burns was traded to the Giants for 2024 second- and fifth-round picks, along with a conditional 2025 fifth-round pick, the two have spent time together on and off the field.

“Right now, we’re just pretty much getting used to each other, bouncing a lot of ideas off of each other,” Burns said on Thursday. “We just spend a lot of time trying to develop that chemistry. Also, healthy competition. We almost compete in everything we do, on the field, off the field. Having somebody to push me and I’m able to push, that’s going to be a positive this year.”

Thibodeaux has been enjoying the duo’s “get to know each other” phase.

“He’s a Florida boy. You talk about a little bit of city, a little bit of country. I’m from West Coast, from L.A. You talk about the mix of the outdoors and the indoors, the big city and the wide-open country. It’s a good mix,” Thibodeaux said. “We’ve been able to get together, show him some things, he’s shown me some things. Talk about culturally, music-wise. It’s been a good time so far.”

Reaching the next level

Thibodeaux has been good since being drafted No. 5 overall by the Giants in 2022. He had 4.0 sacks and finished fourth in AP Defensive Rookie of the Year voting that year. Last season, he posted the first double-digit sack season of his career with 11.5.

He knows, though, that he has not been great.

“You think when you’re a rookie you have this long career, right? You look at a guy like Aaron Donald, he just retired, went to 10 Pro Bowls. I’m already two years down, not been to one,” Thibodeaux said.” Not saying that Pro Bowl is my end all, be all. Just talking about understanding that every day is the last day, right? You talk about trying to maximize all the time that I have and all of the ability that I have today.”

How does Thibodeaux get there?

“We talked about it. My coach, Charlie (Bullen), he’s been cooking. I’m really happy to have him. I thank God I have him, to be honest. He’s been very instrumental in the short period we’ve been together,” Thibodeaux said. “Talk about accolades plus respect equals achievement to legacy. That’s kind of what we’ve been talking about. Last year I was able to get 11 and a half sacks. Those are the accolades. Now it’s about getting that respect throughout the league, having teams fear coming to play against us. Just taking everything I do to the next level as far as that extra. Greatness is optional. I just got to kind of take that next step.”

Paying it forward

In Burns’ third season with Carolina, which was 2021, the Panthers signed edge defender Haason Reddick a year after Reddick had produced 12.5 sacks for the Arizona Cardinals. Burns spent the year learning everything he could from Reddick.

“My third year, that’s when Haason (Reddick) came to the Panthers. That’s when I developed that competitive nature with the other end on the other side,” Burns said. “I was able to learn a lot from him. It’s a similar situation going into my sixth year, he’s [Thibodeaux] going into his third year. That’s the same as me and Haason. That definitely did wonders for my career.”

Burns had his first Pro Bowl season the year he was paired with Reddick. He also made the Pro Bowl the following season, when he had a career-best 12.5 sacks.

Burns says there are “small things” that “only a vet can tell you about because they’ve been through that experience.”

Now, it is his turn to pass on some of those “small things” to Thibodeaux and the Giants other edge defenders.

Leaning on a legend

We have watched Thibodeaux as a pass rusher for two seasons. Thibodeaux has the pass rush moves, and the power. He has everything it takes to be dominant. In my film study with Dan Hatman of The Scouting Academy, and work done by BBV’s Nick Falato, the general conclusion is that when he struggles it is often because of an inability to string moves together to defeat a blocker working to counter his initial move.

For two seasons, we have wondered if defensive line coach Andre Patterson, who has unlocked the vast potential of Dexter Lawrence, and who gets credit for helping players like Danielle Hunter, Linval Joseph, Hall of Famer Chris Doleman and six-time first-team All-Pro John Randle, could help Thibodeaux and the other Giants edge defenders.

For two seasons, we have been unable to find out. Under Martindale, the Giants’ outside linebackers coach was Drew Wilkins, a Martindale protégé who followed him to East Rutherford, N.J. after the pair worked together with the Baltimore Ravens.

It is fair to wonder, especially given the acrimonious way in which Martindale departed the Giants, if the reason Patterson stayed in his lane with the defensive linemen is that Martindale did not want anyone stepping on Wilkins’s toes.

That has changed.

In what Patterson said is a “huge change” for the Giants defense, the long-time coach has been asked to spend time on pass rush with the team’s edge defenders.

Patterson said the overlap is “something that Shane [Bowen] and Dabs and the organization wants to have happen.”

“I’m just doing what they want me to do, you know what I mean?,” Patterson said. “It wasn’t something that was asked of me before then. I do have a little history of helping those guys, so it’s been good. It’s been good for me to visit with those guys and let them see how I think it should be done. Guys that I’ve had in the past that weren’t high draft picks or whatever became Pro Bowl players as rushers in this league, so it’s been good to spend some time with those guys.”

Thibodeaux is thrilled to have Patterson’s input.

“Dre is a legend. He’s like Mr. Miyagi, Yoda, knows how it all works. Charlie [Bullen, the OLB coach] comes in and, he’s the young, the energy company. When you talk about the scheme, things like that, they’ve been working hand-in-hand,” Thibodeaux said. “When you see how it’s going to continue to unfold, I think last year the interior and the edge weren’t cohesive. Now it’s going to start to work like clockwork. That’s the maturity. That’s where I’m growing as a player and we’re growing as a defense, being able to play as a unit.”

It isn’t clear how much technique work Patterson is doing with Thibodeaux and the other edge defenders. Thibodeaux, though, made it clear Patterson is helping him to see beyond his own role and into how the pieces of a defense work together.

“I think when you look at a defense, we’re speaking of basketball. Basketball has a lot of star players. You can play one on one. You can go out there and have a LeBron, all these greats go and score,” Thibodeaux said. “Now with football, you’re not as good unless you have all 11 players. Now when you look at the front, right, one side isn’t setting the edge and the other side is, it doesn’t matter. If the back end isn’t covering the wide receivers, there’s no chance for a sack. The front end is not pressuring the quarterback, there’s no chance for a pick. When you think about how things work together, we have to understand that.”

New outside linebackers coach Charlie Bullen is also happy to have Patterson’s help. The video below from Art Stapleton is Bullen answering my question about Patterson.

A new scheme

One of the great frustrations in watching Thibodeaux over the past two seasons is that Martindale did not run a scheme that featured edge defenders or required big-time pressure production. Martindale used a blitz-heavy pressure scheme, and referred to Thibodeaux as the “can opener” who, because of his multi-faceted skill set, allowed Martindale the freedom to lean into the exotic blitz schemes ingrained in his “pressure breaks pipes” philosophy.

The result was that Thibodeaux did not have as many opportunities to rush the passer as did many of the other star players at the edge position. Of 55 qualifying edge rushers in 2023, Thibodeaux finished 45th in percentage of opportunities, rushing the passer on just 86.1% of passing plays for which he was on the field.

Oddly, Burns was 50th. The Panthers only let him rush 84.4% of the time.

In 2022, Thibodeaux was 46th out of 57 qualifiers in percentage of opportunities, rushing the passer 86.8% of the time.

That should change in 2024.

Under Martindale the Giants led the league in blitz rate in 2022 at 39.7 percent. In 2023, they were second to the Minnesota Vikings at 45.4%. In three seasons as defensive coordinator of the Tennessee Titans, Bowen’s teams never blitzed more than 22.0% percent of the time.

Bowen believes in using four-man pressure, albeit with games and stunts to try and confuse blockers, as much as possible.

“If you go back and look at my time in Tennessee, it’s been a lot of front pressure, right,” Bowen said during an April press conference. “Like the front four, being coordinated with their rush lanes, working together, finding ways to affect the quarterback and then being able to use that to be multiple on the back end, right, where you’re not delegating a piece up front.

“And it takes all 11. It does. Like I mentioned earlier, if you’re bringing more to affect the quarterback, you’ve got less back there to help, right. If you have more back there to help in coverage, you’ve got less going to affect the quarterback.”

Patterson said the reliance on four-man rushes will mean the Giants will need Thibodeaux, Burns, Azeez Ojulari, Dexter Lawrence and others in the front seven to win their one-on-one matchups.

“The biggest thing that I tell the guys all the time, games don’t get you sacks,” Patterson said. “You’ve got to be able to beat people one-on-one and get them to worry about you beating them one-on-one, and then you throw the games in as a change-up.

“If you’re saying the way you get a home run is by running a game, you’re fooling yourself. f the O-line aren’t afraid of you beating them one-on-one, they’re going to sit on the games all day long. We’ve got to learn how to win our one-on-one battles as a front four to make the games be able to work when we get to that point.”

Despite his 11.5 sacks, Thibodeaux’s pass rush win percentage of 6.4 was just 53rd of 55 qualifying edge defenders in 2023, per Pro Football Focus. In 2022, he was 39th out of 57 qualifiers with a win percentage of 9.7. He is, obviously, going to have to win on his own more often.

Bowen doesn’t want to overwhelm players with information.

“The last thing I want to do is have so much scheme we can’t focus on our style of play, the technique, the fundamentals and paralyzing ourselves before the snap,” he said.

Thibodeaux appears to be looking forward to the change.

“I think it’s great that I don’t have to think,” Thibodeaux said. “I’m a smart guy, I always do lean to my wits. When you talk about being able to play, defense is about players, offense is about plays. When you look at that in the sense of having guys who are talented and able to put them in a position to hone in on their technique and things like that, it will be good for the whole defense.”

Glory days

Great Giants teams have always featured dominant front sevens on defense.

The late 1950s Giants had Hall of Famers Andy Robustelli and Sam Huff in their front seven, along with multiple time Pro Bowlers Jim Katcavage and Rosey Grier.

The 1986 Giants had Lawrence Taylor, Harry Carson, Carl Banks, Leonard Marshall and George Martin. The 2007 team featured Michael Strahan, Justin Tuck, Osi Umenyiora and Antonio Pierce. The 2011 team had Tuck, Umenyiora and got an All-Pro 16.5-sack season from Jason Pierre-Paul.

With Thibodeaux, Burns, Lawrence and Bobby Okereke, have the Giants put the building blocks of that type of defense in place? Maybe, just maybe, that depends on whether or not Thibodeaux can reach the level of individual greatness he seeks.

“I think we get paid a lot of money and we want to be the greatest. This is New York. You want to see your great players play,” Thibodeaux said. “Bringing Burns in, having Dex. Dex is a Hall of Famer; Burns is a Hall of Famer. Hopefully one day I’ll be able to get up and put that work in.

“You talk about being able to display your traits. We’re all here to see great players play great. I think that’s what we’re going to be able to show in this defense.”